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Moorea Maguire's avatar

I completely agree. This is unethical. Good on you for responding with that well-written letter! They're abusing the public's trust. Before stating that any product is safe and effective, there needs to be credible evidence. We need to ask ourselves, "What is the source for that information?" And if the source is not to be trusted, the information cannot be trusted.

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Danielle's avatar

Information from sources with such a CLEAR CONFLICT OF INTEREST should not be trusted at any time.

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Moorea Maguire's avatar

exactly

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Susiejoy Barry's avatar

I did not get a phone call from a nurse at my clinic BUT I did get a TEXT MESSAGE saying we were eligible for this vaccine and to make an appointment. I also got a similar message on the HotDoc app when I made an unrelated appointment. I CONSIDER both of these approaches unethical. These invitations to get a shingles vax included my husband and they have TREATED HIM FOR SHINGLES from stress just 4 months ago! Any clinic or nurse should know it is NOT RECOMMENDED TO GET A SHINGLES VAX UNTIL AT LEAST 12 MONTHS AFTER A SHINGLES ATTACK! So they are indiscriminately sending these “directives” out to patients - without first seeing if it is contra-indicated!

My husband has ABI from stroke 7 years ago and so I have medical POA. If I did not see that “request” to come and get a shingles vax and taken the appropriate action, I am fairly certain my husband would have just blithely had it next visit, with no questions asked. I have saved him from the “NOT SAFE OR EFFECTIVE” C19 jab, but then despite my vigilance, almost lost him to God knows what side effects from a shingles jab 8 months before recommendation! He will not be getting it anyway because I have read many articles in credible medical journals that it has some ingredients now added, that didn’t used to be there. These ingredients are also found in the “NOT SAFE OR EFFECTIVE” C19 jabs that have caused all sorts of adverse reactions - including death!

NO - we are definitely NOT getting the shingles jab, just like we didn’t get the C19 jab, after diligent and exhaustive research! We got Covid once each (together) which was like a mild flu and we were on the mend in less than 24 hours!

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Elizabeth Hart's avatar

It's really bad Susiejoy, been out of control for years.

Vaccination is just a rote process, there's no authentic valid voluntary informed consent process in my opinion, and it's impossible under pressure, coercion, manipulation and mandates.

We need more people to pushback.

Complain to the clinics, complain to AHPRA, complain to the RACGP and AMA etc.

As this scandal emerges into the light, more people might be motivated to take action.

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Susiejoy Barry's avatar

My nurse friends tell me they are still on shaky ground after having refused C19 and been fired! The reason they struggle to get rehired is because their record is just marked as “fired for misconduct or insubordination” No where is there any indication WHAT the misconduct or insubordination was, so they don’t even get an interview. Most found new jobs in unrelated fields and are much happier without Big Pharma continually looking over their shoulder!

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Elizabeth Hart's avatar

Wow, nurses who refused to give their valid voluntary informed consent for COVID-19 vaccination were "fired for misconduct or insubordination".

Meanwhile... All those vaccinators who collaborated with mandates, who injected people they knew were appearing before them under duress via vaccine mandates, who were being intimidated and threatened they would lose their jobs and participation in society if they refused to submit to vaccination, those vaccinators who trashed their obligation to obtain valid voluntary informed consent for vaccination, they're still in their jobs...

What a travesty!

What we need now is a movement for all those people who were injected under threats to complain to AHPRA about the vaccinators who did this to them.

Of course AHPRA is the major culprit in all this too, in threatening practitioners not to question vaccination for years, and gagging the practitioners with the 9 March 2021 Position Statement that demanded practitioners support the COVID-19 vaccination rollout...or else.

It's a massive scandal!

See for example: Reckless disregard for voluntary informed consent - the AHPRA Position Statement 9 March 2021: https://elizabethhart.substack.com/p/reckless-disregard-for-voluntary

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Danielle's avatar

AHPRA is a corrupt disgrace. No oversight whatsoever.

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Pip's avatar

I lost my job for asking questions regarding safety of the depop shot and for asking the senior doctor to show me the long term safety data, of which his response was “we have 12 months of data”…… (I kid you not). Almost laughable if not so despicable. I responded that 12 months is not long term and we are already seeing serious safety signals. I was then told that my employment may be untenable if I don’t have it.

Prior to this, the practice manager wanted to set up a depop shot clinic (lots of $$$$ incentives to do so) I expressed my concerns about its safety to her, falling on deaf ears. It didn’t go through because I told her I refuse to administer, document and monitor cold chain for these products.

I will never go back to this putrid system. I want no part. I can’t help but look at all nurses and doctors now with utter disgust.

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Elizabeth Hart's avatar

Pip, you say "I lost my job for asking questions regarding safety..."

Are you a nurse? You say "I refuse to administer, document and monitor cold chain for these products."

This is the shocking situation...

Practitioners who administer the vaccines aren't allowed to question them, they're at risk of being labelled 'anti-vax' and suspended by AHPRA.

Wow! The practitioners who administer the vaccines aren't allowed to question them...and yet the obligation is on them to obtain valid voluntary informed consent!

And they certainly can't obtain VOLUNTARY informed consent from someone who is appearing before them under duress, i.e. under a vaccine mandate which threatens penalties such as loss of livelihood and participation in society.

What an absolute disaster this is...

And fundamentally it's because the bulk of practitioners didn't have the wherewithal to call it out... It's down to them, because it's the vaccinators' obligation to obtain valid voluntary informed consent.

Well done you on standing your ground, I salute you 🫡

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Pip's avatar

I have the conversation with the senior doctor on record. A keepsake I knew I had to do so my memory of the diabolical situation was not diluted by time.

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Elizabeth Hart's avatar

Feel free to contact me directly Pip.

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Pip's avatar

Would be happy to. I will be in Adelaide in the next few months.

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Susiejoy Barry's avatar

I have researched vaccines for decades and also done the extensive year long autism course to add on to my 3 teaching degrees, so I could confidently work with and add to my understanding of autistic children.

Over the years the number of mandated jabs has risen in lockstep with the number of children now diagnosed with some form of autism. Do not fall for the official explanation that we are just “better” at diagnosing it now, hence the increase in the statistics. This is rubbish - when I was young a child with autism stood out and no one in my entire community covering hundreds of square kilometres knew of such a child. Now, as a teacher, I am finding there will not be one or two, but several such children in every classroom. Sure there is the odd parent who just has a badly behaved child who races off for a “diagnosis” in order to qualify for NDIS funding, but they are the absolute minority. IMO the majority are vax induced. Some from the very first jab given on the day of birth which many times goes unheeded and unquestioned by unaware or “coerced” parents!

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Elizabeth Hart's avatar

Certainly there must be independent and objective consideration of the impact of the vaccine products on the ever-increasing vaccination schedule.

Before 'Covid' I particularly challenged the literature supporting the safety of aluminium-adjuvanted vaccines, see for example my letter to then Australian Chief Medical Officer Chris Baggoley: RE: MISLEADING INFORMATION ON ALUMINIUM AND VACCINE SAFETY AND VACCINATION POLICY, 25 May 2016: https://over-vaccination.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/letter-to-chief-medical-officer-re-aluminium-and-vaccine-safety-and-vaccination-policy.pdf

Also see my substack article: "Despite a lack of good-quality evidence we do not recommend that any further research on this topic is undertaken." https://elizabethhart.substack.com/p/despite-a-lack-of-good-quality-evidence

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Danielle's avatar

I would be very surprised if new mothers are even told about the Vit K and Hep B jabs on day one. I suspect that nursing staff just give them without any permission at all.

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Elizabeth Hart's avatar

Yes, what is the valid voluntary informed consent process for those injections, what is actually happening?

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Danielle's avatar

In my experience, and that was 30+ years ago, they just gave the baby the Vit K jab and never even mentioned it. I only know because they had marked it in the immunization book that they used to give you when you left the hospital.

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Jane Vickery's avatar

In my experience (16 years ago)they turn up and assume the mother will allow it. When I declined I was resentfully made to sign a conscientious objection form. You can decline (if you are well informed) although it is not made obvious that you have the option.

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Elizabeth Hart's avatar

“…although it is not made obvious that you have the option”.

That’s not informed consent then…

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Sharon Purcell's avatar

Despicable

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Angela's avatar

You are much kinder than me. I recently received a letter from the Australian government 'Australian Vaccine Register' (through my medicare records) inviting me to have one of their 'safe and effective' poisoned needles. As I explained (again) I am not vaccine hesitant I am vaccine hostile and, seeing as I have not and will not consent to my private medical records being accessed for unauthorized use (and I told them that in a letter last year) I consider their repeated invasion of my privacy as traumatic. I have therefore invoiced them for 'pain and suffering' to the sum of $2,000 - to be incrementally increased (by a factor of ten) for each subsequent trespass.

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Elizabeth Hart's avatar

Great work Angela - see my responses to Peter S.

This mandatory reporting of vaccination status by vaccinators without vaccinees' consent, this is an assault on privacy.

Keep up your good work challenging the system.

As for "I am not vaccine hesitant I am vaccine hostile", that is crying out for a t-shirt!

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Matilda Bawden's avatar

I have friends who I warned repeatedly not to take the COVID shot, they did anyway. The wife ended up with severe leg pains almost immediately afterwards.

A year ago, they were both "sold" the Shingles shot. She refused (having learned her lesson). He took it. 3 months later he gets Shingles... imagine that!

Seems they both have learned now they won't take the flu shot!

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Jan's avatar

An elerley friend of my mine was recently co-erced into getting the shingles vaccine, I told him I had had shingles twice over my 74 years and although it was unpleasant, nothing to worry about. He trusted his Doctor, got the vaccine and ended up very unwell for two weeks, I am so over the push on unnecessary medications, all to do with profit and not health. Thank you for all the effort you put into keeping the drug pushers accountable.

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Elizabeth Hart's avatar

It's atrocious isn't it Jan...

Looks like the medical profession has been effectively conscripted by governments to impose an ever-increasing number of medical interventions upon the population.

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Peter S's avatar

Thank you Elizabeth.

My wife and I were astonished to find, on our Medicare 'accounts' (via MyGov) that our next 'due' vaccine is the shingles injection at age 65. The site has had a revamp since that date (12/5/25) and the info was a little harder to find but it is still there in the Proof of Vaccination - View History - View complete Immunisation History.

How is it possible to be 'due' for a vaccination in 3-4 years time without any Informed consent whatsoever????

You are correct, Informed Consent is the BIG issue where the criminals are fully exposed.

Is there any point in advising them that that I am NOT 'due' for any of their injections at any time.

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Elizabeth Hart's avatar

Thanks for alerting me to what's happening on Medicare accounts Peter, re putting in place vaccine reminders.

Wow, how bad is this?

And what do you think about this?

QUOTE

Under the Australian Immunisation Register Act 2015, it is mandatory for all vaccination providers to report the administration of COVID-19, influenza, NIP and Japanese encephalitis virus (JEV) vaccines to the AIR.

END OF QUOTE

Mandatory reporting...

Without consent of the vaccinee...

And it appears the medical profession is collaborating with this, another example of the trashing of consent!

I haven't had time to investigate this yet, but see: https://www.health.gov.au/news/mandatory-reporting-changes-to-the-australian-immunisation-register-air-from-1-march-2025#:~:text=Under%20the%20Australian%20Immunisation%20Register,JEV)%20vaccines%20to%20the%20AIR.

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Peter S's avatar

Ahhh the AIR.

We submitted our opt out forms by snail mail (which was the the ONLY option at the time......seriously in this day and age)! Is this in itself proof of nefarious intent?

Of course, there was no way of confirming receipt of forms, so we repeated the process via Registered Post thinking this would at least give us proof that the forms were received.

Sadly not, they (AIR) are on top of this as well (further proof of intent?), they did not send a notification of receipt.

So, contacted Australia Post and was informed that AIR have a 'special arrangement' with Australia Post that their locked bag does not have to send notifications of receipt (spurious reason given was the volume of mail).

Once again astonished, I again contacted Australia Post for a refund of my Registered Post costs as notifications are one of their advertised reasons for using Registered Post and to receive monies on false pretenses, knowing a notification would not be received, is fraudulent, may as well be talking to the wall. As far as I am aware this fraud 'special arrangement' is still in place and ongoing.

Thanks for your work.

Edit Note: Corrected some punctuation though probably not all (:

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Elizabeth Hart's avatar

Wow, thanks for this info Peter.

It's just wild! How on earth is this sort of invasive legislation being passed?

I do not consent!

As for 'our political representatives', what a bunch of worse than useless seat warmers in the main, selling us down the river...

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JacqNSW's avatar

Hi Elizabeth,

You wrote: (As for 'our political representatives', what a bunch of worse than useless seat warmers . . . )

Scenario

I strongly support all taxpayers to stop paying tax, stop paying Polistitute's salaries & superannuation; in lieu of aforementioned pool a funded amount of dollars to gift/provide each Polistitute in their electorate the highly recommended seat warmer that incorporates a lithium battery within the seat design.

This unique lithium battery operated seat warmer includes a mini wind turbine & mini solar panel, so that they have the choice to choose which Net Zero Non Renewable Device to charge their lithium battery operated seat warmer with.

Should the Polistitute accept the gift and use it and should the seat warmer's:

1. Mini wind turbine catch fire and polute the air with carbon due to the "fossil fuel" oil coolant required within the turbine; or turbine blade/s maim/kill any endangered fly or lavae species; or spray Polistitute's toxic polutant faecal matter into the air or soil or harm/injure the Polistitute and the Polistitute complains

2. Mini solar panel breaks down and leeches toxic chemicals into the air or soil or harm/injure the Polistitute and the Polistitute complains

The Electorate's People Committee "EPC", elected by the Electorate's People "EP" shall incarcerate the Polistitute and immediately commission a EP contractor to investigate the Polistitute's crime* (*environmental polution crime is owner fault of the the seat warmer; a complaint by the Polistitute is a deemed crime) and provide an indepth report within 2 years of the offence.

Upon report findings being published and provided to all EPs and invite EP to provide submissions with recommended common sense penalities for the Polistitute's Crime in a timely manner ie 2 (two) months. The EPC shall convene and dot point all EPs submitted valid penalities and provide the valid penalities to those EPs who submitted recommendations with requirements to provide their chosen 3 of the valid penalities and provide back to the EPC within 1 (one) month their results.

The EPC shall reconvene and tally the results of the highest chosen favourable penalty and sentence the Polistitute on the penalty charge. All costs involved for this process including incarceration costs shall be redeemable through the sales of all the Polistitute's assets including their personal belongings. All outcomes shall be published for the EPs knowledge.

Recent History

Elizabeth, these Polistitute's:

1. Incarcerated the Aus People in their homes.

2. Installed Compulsory, Fraudulent PCR Testing** Stations throughout suburbs to scare the People and force compliance.

** Out of curiosity, in mid 2024 I bought some PCR Covid Sticks and tested my dog's ear wax, his water bucket and food bowl; a semi moist indoor plant tray & outdoor semi moist plant tray; a decomposing pumpkin and potato piece halfway deep in the compost pile. I did not believe the results.

So, yet again I used my hard earnt dollars and purchased more PCR Sticks and repeated the tests.

The second results weren't the same as the first results. On both tests, only the ear wax, food bowl, the indoor plant tray, pumpkin and potato tested positive for Convid. Wow, the potato test reminded me of Mr Potato Head, I laughed out real loud at how we had all been conned.

3. Engaged Incorporated Police "Forces" throughout Aus to:

- ensure the People wore masks even whilst driving alone in their personal vehicle and fine them if they did not ware a mask

- use physical force (slam dunk, grab by the throat, choke, punch, head kick, use rubber bullets, run over with vehicle, high volume water spraying, pepper spraying) and arrest people in the street, parks, beaches, shopping malls, railway stations etc for not wearing a mask.

Shame on these bastard cops who participated in these heinous crimes against their own People. No wonder the Aus People no longer trust or respect the Incorporated Police "Forces".

4. Mandated, coerced, threatened the Aus People to be jabbed with an experimental gene therapy drug that was never made public knowledge that it was indeed a gene therapy drug.

5. Employed the Majority of purported "Professional Medical Doctors & Nurses, Pharmacies etc" to participate in jabbing the People with gene therapy drugs.

Those involved have zero excuse for what they did. "I was doing what I was told to do" Does Not Cut the Intelligence Factor. If these imbeciles were told to turn on a gas oven and stick their heads in it and breathe deeply for the common good . . .

6. The Majority of the Aus People do not comprehend that the gene therapy drugs jabbed into their arms and all the govt in lockstep ads across all msm, riot squad vehicles, extra "force" riot police training, rubber bullets, new govt departments/silos, positions & training to enforce govt lockstep Tavistock Institutional Virtual Signalling Psyop on the Aus People, were payed for by Aus taxdollars.

Yes, you heard Correct. Aus taxdollars payed for all of dot point 6. Australians payed for their own toxic jabs and all the illegal heinous crimes bestowed upon them by the Corporate Aus Grubberment.

The above Recent History and the Scenario are both Orwellian and parallel one another.

Time to test the Scenario.

I very much appreciate all your infinite wisdom, common sense, professional documents and time you provide to educate the people.

Thank You Elizabeth

Kind Regards

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Elizabeth Hart's avatar

Interesting your experience with the Covid sticks Jacq…

Testing, another major facet of the racket…how many billions have been stolen via the testing scam?

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Gumnut123's avatar

Send copies of this matter to your Federal Politicians and State wonìt hurt.

Remind the Pollie that there are mature age people who would think they must get this injection. THat this under the counter sell is not Australian a ìnd to make a list and formally present it to Parliament. I,E to let them know that we expect far better standards than this treatment of Australian taxpayers.

Also tell them that you do not aggree with mRNA to be routinely inserted into Injections, vegetab les and other Pharma produced goods, THat you do not approve of the Moderna (new) factory in Melbourne as we have Australian companies that can do this work, IF NEEDED!

This is all part of the "conditioning" of people to accept jabs as a "normal" part of daily life,

I do trust that the blackmail of Oz families, that when their children attend school that they must have the Government prescribed Jabs completed or they also may lose Family care payments?

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Lynda Bignell's avatar

Good on you Elizabeth. Health it seems is now more concerned with profit than a patient's health. I remember getting a reminder for my 3rd covid jab when I hadn't had the first two. Also never had covid.

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Jane Vickery's avatar

Same - it is akin to unsolicited marketing.

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sumpaul's avatar

Control is the central focus.

Profit is a distant second.

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Lynda Bignell's avatar

Very true and they learned how many were compliant sadly.

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Jenny Dunn's avatar

I bumped into a women I know whose husband was getting the Shingles vaccine. She said the Doctor had said it does not stop you from getting Shingles just lessens the severity. In that case it is not even correct to call it a vaccine as it does not even provide sterilising immunity. So in my mind that phone call was mis-information at its worst.

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Elizabeth Hart's avatar

Jenny, re "She said the Doctor had said it does not stop you from getting Shingles just lessens the severity."

Can you believe how they are getting away with this?!

Every single case where someone has the symptoms of the disease purportedly being protected against should be reported to the TGA as an adverse event, as vaccine failure.

Imagine if that had happened during 'Covid', the TGA would have been deluged with a torrent of adverse event reports of people having common respiratory symptoms after COVID-19 vaccination.

This whole thing is such a racket, the lid has to be blown off the entire ever-increasing, deeply conflicted, taxpayer-funded vaccination schedule.

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Jane Vickery's avatar

I have numerous client's who have recently been very ill with Influenza A. Without exception, they have all admitted to having the flu vaccine, and remarked 'it would have been much more severe if I hadn't". It is the same bizarre yet compelling logic used when the Convid jabs didn't stop convid.

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Elizabeth Hart's avatar

So they were diagnosed with Influenza A, they were tested?

What is the point of all the testing, for ‘different viruses’ that have the same symptoms?

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Jane Vickery's avatar

Apparently diagnosed by the same doctors offering the flu vaccine 🤷‍♀️

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Froggie's avatar

Good on you Elizabeth, you are a real champion of honesty and decency.

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Amat's avatar

In our NHS UK Scotland gone are the days when you would approach them if you were interested re vaccination. Now you are not asked, I was sent a letter with an appointment of the date, day and time that I was to appear for my shingles vaccine, it felt more like an order than an invitation. I had to go to the trouble of emailing to cancel it stating that I was not interested in any further "invitations". Of course it will be ignored and they will repeat the process again and again.

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Elizabeth Hart's avatar

Re “Now you are not asked, I was sent a letter with an appointment of the date, day and time that I was to appear for my shingles vaccine, it felt more like an order than an invitation.”

Wow! It’s out of control!

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Transcriber B's avatar

!!!

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Charlie Hadenuff's avatar

Im going to make a third comment here if I may. My parents, aged 87 and 90 both now refuse vaccines. My father told me every time he visits the doc the doctor asks him if he'd like to get this or that vaccine. My father says " you know how I feel about vaccines!" The doctor replies.." I know, but im obligated by law to offer them to you "

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Elizabeth Hart's avatar

Re: “The doctor replies.." I know, but im obligated by law to offer them to you "”

Wow…

Where’s that coming from…?

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Charlie Hadenuff's avatar

I'll my father when see him next if he could follow that up. I'll see him in two weeks . He lives in Perth.

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Elizabeth Hart's avatar

That would be useful Charlie, please do, and let me know.

I’ve previously argued doctors were conscripted to support the COVID-19 vaccine rollout. This appears to be going on across the board with vaccines.

See my email to then attorney general Mark Dreyfus for background:

Re: Are health practitioners in effect being conscripted to participate in the Australian government's Covid-19 vaccination rollout, in contravention of the Australian Constitution? August 2023:

https://vaccinationispolitical.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/re_-are-health-practitioners-in-effect-being-conscripted-1.pdf

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Charlie Hadenuff's avatar

I absolutely will let you know what I find out. A few years ago I needed a script for ventolin ( they're not over the counter in nz) there was this young British locum Dr who wanted me to go to the hospital for a whole series unnecessary testing..I get asthma from exercise particularly in the icy cold air where I live. When I said no I'd just like a script she became very aggressive and rude. There is a change in the way Doctors are behaving. They do not like being challenged or questioned. I'll reply to you here when I find out more from my amazing old Dad.

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Aj's avatar

Good on you Elizabeth. What gets me is how vaccines are advertised as free. That is hogwash and false advertising. All us tax payers pay for every vaccine when we pay our tax bill so why are they allowed to be advertised as free. And worse why are people so stupid not to understand this! Then there are more questions...where did these vaccines come from, who has access to them, how is the continuance of the necessary temperature controls enforced and guaranteed. Where is the research that shows if you don't get the vaccine you will get shingles. Nowhere...because there is no research. 🫨😷👿

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Elizabeth Hart's avatar

All great questions Aj!

As for the 'free' vaccines, it's mind-boggling to think of the money being squandered on these mass population medical interventions.

Meanwhile, people who want actual medical assistance, e.g. via specialists, could be facing waiting lists up to a year or more!

It's diabolical.

We must have an investigation into how much all the mass population testing and vaccines are costing us, huge money earners for pHarma.

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Mick Bolton's avatar

Vaccination is a ''safe and effective'' way to protect yourself from ........ (fill in the blank)''

Where have we heard that whopper before?

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Kathleen Taylor's avatar

The clinic is direct marketing a potentially harmful injection for profit. Their sales pitch is disguised as a medical recommendation. This is unethical.

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zeb11's avatar

Unfortunately, many of us 65+ have spent a lifetime 'trusting' medical professionals. Many citizens simply cannot contemplate that their Doctor or nurse could/would mislead them, misinform them or that they could even be a liar.

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Nabeela's avatar

Yes, I agree, there are still too many who trust medical professionals and agencies. Even though in my experience when i was an RN/RM medical professionals lie to get their patients to do what they (medical professional), think is best. On researching the topic I found a few studies, showing that medical professionals do lie to patients.

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Charlie Hadenuff's avatar

There is an older woman I've had dealings with who was anxious, very concerned as her doctor had told her that the previous batch of shingles vaccines turned out to be placebo and that at her old age to be not be protected shingles might killl her! Why did she not ask..well if they were placebo then how can I be sure this lot isn't either?. People don't think to ask the right questions. There is open war declared on the old people. Its disgusting.

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Elizabeth Hart's avatar

Re “her doctor had told her that the previous batch of shingles vaccines turned out to be placebo”

Seriously? Need evidence for that statement…

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Charlie Hadenuff's avatar

They're too trusting... that generation

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Transcriber B's avatar

I see the blind trusting in young mothers with their ob gyn and their pediatricians as well. Very sadly. Many are very easily intimidated.

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Charlie Hadenuff's avatar

True that.

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Transcriber B's avatar

I know. I used to see it that way, too. It's a lot to get one's mind around that when it comes to vaccines most doctors are full of shale, lying, and/or ignorant at an absolutely gobsmacking level.

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Charlie Hadenuff's avatar

Of course its unethical. But what it tells me is that they are not getting enough of them in arms and they're now going the direct marketing approach. It tells me the word is out and people are questioning all vaccines now. So now they stoop this low trying to getting old people scared, It would be easier to direct market solar panels and that's hard enough..I know..I tried it.

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